Bubble Children…
My mom and I attended Ethan and GJ’s “Back-To-School” night this evening. The teachers laughingly refer to it as the “great race.” You attend each class your child attends throughout the day, although, you only stay in each class for 8 minutes and you have 3 minutes to get to the next class. The teachers have to be very quick and on their toes to get through a quick presentation, questions aren’t really encouraged because there isn’t a lot of time. The entire evening’s events are based on a schedule form that your child has filled out for you, which is supposed to be a duplicate of his/her daily schedule. Let’s face it, if your kid likes you - he/she sends you to the right classes, if not, you are basically screwed.
I suppose I should stop this “child” business anyway. I don’t consider Ethan or GJ to be “children.” They are now part of a horrific species known as “teenagers.”
*side note - with my limited experience in parenting, it is my personal theory that God, the Universe, what have you, has your beloved child turn into the icky teenager so that you will begin to not like them so much, thus making it easier to kick them (by force if necessary) right out of the freaking nest. Many a former “child” has heard the words, “don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya..” echoing after them in the driveway, I’m sure.
Looking at some of the parents that showed up tonight, I was fairly certain that many of them didn’t make it to the correct classrooms… after “meeting” a few of them (for me, it was like that Las Vegas commercial with the same girl giving herself a different name each time she met someone) I didn’t blame their kid, no matter how big of a punky, little jerk he/she might be.
The 8th grade class as a whole is reading the follow-up book to “The Outsiders” titled, “That Was Then, This Is Now.” The 7th grade class is reading the first book, “The Outsiders.” It will take about 3 weeks for them to complete the books and afterward the entire school is celebrating with a “Rumble Night” complete with Elvis impersonator, muscle cars, and music from the 50’s, 60’s, and early 70’s. I think it is awesome that they are making such a big deal out of this.
Since Ethan and GJ have all the same teachers, my mom and I decided to just stick together (Ethan and GJ only have 3 classes together) and follow GJ’s schedule. Our first stop was Language Arts with a lovely woman that we’ll call Ms. P - Ms. P is a widow who has been teaching for 16 years. She explained the books the 7th and 8th graders were reading and mentioned the Rumble Night. Then she went on to explain the curriculum, expectations, grading scale, etc. A copy of the book, “That Was Then, This Is Now” was in plain sight on the top of every desk where the parents were sitting.
Here is where it gets a little serious, hairy and I am going to get a tad bit preachy… bear with me, I think I have a valid, almost “Switzerland-ish” view point here.
Nearing the end of our 8 minutes with Ms. P, a gentleman (using the term LIGHTLY here) says, “I have a question.” (not that we were asked if we had any, but Mr. God’s Gift to Parenting, apparently likes to make a stink with an audience). He proceeds to grill Ms. P on who ok’d the book. After being assured that this was on the California’s approved literature list he snapped, “Well, I’d like to talk to someone about that. This mentions DRINKING in the first THREE pages!” Ms. P was quite polite (much more so than Loud Mouth Parent) and diplomatic telling him he could call and schedule a conference. He assured her, rather rudely, and the rest of us that he would be doing so.
Look… here is where I get a little preachy… in my oh-so humble opinion:
Nothing can be solved from sheltering or forcing a kid into a bubble. If anything, this is an example of truly, lazy parenting. Why? Well, I would much rather prefer to have my child read something I don’t agree with or even approve of, so that we could sit down and discuss is, rationally, and I could find out how he felt about it and I could tell him what his father and I believe. Open, honest, communication. If you keep your kid in a bubble - you never have to talk to them now, do you?
I was reading a non-fiction work of Stephen King and he basically said (I’m rephrasing here, can’t recall the exact quote) that when they start trying to tell you what you should not read, that’s the first thing you should run out and read. There is always someone somewhere willing to do your thinking for you - if you allow them to.
I don’t believe we protect our children by not allowing them to be exposed to things. Now keep in mind, I’m not sending my kids out to hang out with drug dealers… I’m talking about restricting the literature they read… in this case, I’m against it, obviously!
It is not my intention to raise lemmings, sheeple, or mindless followers. The people who think for themselves can change the world. I want my kids to educate themselves, develop their own opinion. It’s my job to provide a moral compass and I can’t do that if I don’t let them see the black, white and shades of gray.
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August 31, 2005 @ 5:53 am
Hear, hear! Though I don’t have kidlets yet, I feel the same way as you.
Great post.
August 31, 2005 @ 10:26 am
Great post. I like your parenting sense of humor.
I’m adding you to my blogroll if that’s all right. :)
August 31, 2005 @ 10:35 am
Thanks Zube! I think we need more parents who want to have frank, open, honest and even controversial conversations with their kids.
I’m afraid that too many parents believe that by putting their kids in a bubble they are safeguarding themselves and the children from harm and so many times we are given evidence, tragically, that this simply is not the case.
What sort of a road are we on when we become afraid of literature? I can only assume that there are people who’s beliefs are so fragile they are truly afraid that the mere exposure to new ideas or beliefs will simply crush their entire world.
You simply cannot teach good judgement or common sense through fear.
* stepping off my soapbox… for now ;o) *
monica Thank you very much! I’m so glad you stopped by! Please add me to your blogroll… I appreciate it very much! :o)
August 31, 2005 @ 1:05 pm
hmmmm… I agree with your overall statement and I think that the parent in question is certainly overbearing if his issue is that there is drinking writen about in the book (something his children may have already experienced or at least will within the next few years gauranteed). I agree that the burden is on the parent to discuss with their child these issues and provide a moral compus. I will further preface, my soon to be stated objection by stating that, I have a BA in English literature and am in no way a large advocate of banning books. All of this having been said…
Do we not as parents also have the responsability to stand up and demand that our children be taught appropriatly? That there minds be filled with things of virtue through out the course of their studies? Is it necessary for a person to read a book with objectionable material in order to confront ideas and concepts that are controversial? For example is it not possible for a student to have hilighted the conflict of prisoner reform against the prisoners will and where that leaves said prisoner without reading A Clock Work Orange? Before we jump up and down so quickly on Loudmouth Parent lets remember that Playboy and Penthouse have some of the highest reading levels in the country and are technically considered Literature as well. Or perhaps you would consider having children read The Satanic Verses by Antone Lavey. None of us would allow this in our schools. Still we allow and encourage our children to read The Chocolate War which is full of sexual inuendo, masterbation, and cruelty.
Again I agree that the parent in question is being overprotective and is certainly raising this to the wrong person at the wrong time. I just think we should take a minute to recognize that things aren’t as cut and dry as we would like to make them.
The Lumpy
August 31, 2005 @ 1:31 pm
Lumpy While I can appreciate your sentiment and welcome your opinion, everyone is entitled to one… maybe even two ;-) - there are a few holes in the examples you are using. I’ll preface my response by saying that I really do see your point here and to a small extent, can even agree with it.
Let’s clarify that first, no one is advocating children reading magazines that are considered pornography, after all, that would be illegal. As to “Satan’s Verses” that violates a separation of church and state. So either one of these examples is really just an extreme used for shock value and exaggeration.
The novels in question were written back in the 60’s and have been read in junior high and high school classes for years.
The results of irresponsible or underage drinking are well documented in every newspaper with each graduating class. My point is that these tragedies will not be prevented by sheltering our children from reading books or seeing movies that mention drinking or drug use. In as much that you cannot expect to prevent teen pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases by refusing to expose a child to literature or articles or even health classes that depict these types of situations.
To broaden the spectrum a bit, one can even go as far as to say that we cannot learn from history and prevent repeating past mistakes without gaining a full appreciation for the consquences and cost incurred through such atrocities as the holocaust, civil rights movement, and the Vietnam war. Sometimes, it does take gaining a graphic perspective in order to truly appreciate the subject.
I’m not advocating presenting children with images or information that will have traumatic results or is innappropriate for a specific age group.
I am saying that you cannot protect a child by refusing to expose them to beliefs and concepts that disagree with your own beliefs. I am saying that by exposing them you are given the opportunity to discuss and expand on your beliefs and further mold and shape your child’s value system.
September 1, 2005 @ 5:55 am
AMY - Wow. I was totaly expecting to get flamed. Thanks for the calm rational thought. I respect what you said so much that I feel I should comment and retailer some of what I said. Admitedly the Pornagraphic example and religious literature were choosen as an exagerated example although there is reason to use them and to be weary of such things. Did you know there was a highschool that was trying to teach pole dancing in gym class? That aside you are correct but the other two that I choose were well thought out and I think merit a little more discussion than simply being brushed off as having been taught since the 60s. Certainly as a mother you recognize the falicy of saying something is ok simply because this is what we’ve always done since such and such a time.
Let me further say that you are 100% correct that reading about drinking is very unlikely to promote drinking or drug use in children. This is why I said I was in agreement with you that this particular gentlemen is being a bit rediculous.
I do; however, disagree with your general stance that “reading about” some “misconduct in books does not influence children to engage in that misconduct.” The quotes are used to clarify what I think your expressing verses the word some that I have added because again I think are correct in the realm of drinking. Written literature of a sexual nature does; however, incourage people in general and including teenagers to indulge in these activities by hightening passion and desire. Anyone who has read a romance novel can tell you how they feel after reading through the sexual content. This also gets a little sticky, in that, sexual content also creates an appetite that grows. This is the simple truth that much of the porn industry is based on. Give a little and they’ll want more. Not all people addicted to written (there is written) porn, porn videos, or porn magazines got started down that road by sneaking a peak in the back yard when their parents weren’t looking. Both of the books I mentioned before, Clockwork Orange, and The Chocolate War deal with sexual content.
That having been said I’m going to back track slightly and reposit my questions to you. Do we not as parents also have the responsability to stand up and demand that our children be taught appropriatly? That there minds be filled with things of virtue through out the course of their studies? Is it necessary for a person to read a book with objectionable material in order to confront ideas and concepts that are controversial?
These are valid questions even in the face of the drinking issue. Weather or not reading about it will cause the child to act inappropriatly does not necessarily make it ok for our schools to endorse it and force it on our children. I supose what I am trying to say by this is that there is a call to action for us as parents to do more than just to provide the moral compas for our children but also to try and, not shelter them from other points of view, but make sure that other points of view are fairly displayed by our education system and that there is freedom to explore the posatives as well. Honestly, when was the last time our children were asked to read a book that admonished them to be good citizens or to abstain from sex outside of marriage? There are books out there that are excellently writen that deal with these subjects yet our children are instead forced to read books like the two I mentioned before.
Again I know there are avenues this parent could have taken and I think he was out of line for addressing it the way that he did but I do get concerned by the comments I see from time to time regarding this subject. Admittedly you have put quite a bit of thought into it and I have a greater amount of respect for your original comments now but I still think there is a place for contending with our school districts.
A few subnotes then I’m done. First California was teaching the koran for a while so seperation of church and state has been violated in the past and may be again. I didn’t address your remarks on History because I believe they were a side thought used to magnify your point and I think we are both aware that they are on somewhat shaky ground. I didn’t want to nit pick you to death :)
Finally it is not my intent to flame, attack, or annoy. My tone is one of sincere concern and quiet objection. I hope that came through.
Every person should have the last word on their own blog so where as I will be watching for a response I will not post about this subject again. Like I said its not my intent to attack.
The Lumpy
-Gets off soap box and hands it to Amy.
September 1, 2005 @ 5:57 am
doh, One last item. I am not saying that reading content of a sexual nature is the sole contributer to promiscuity in youngsters. All I’m saying is that it weakens what resistance may have been there and creates situations where encounters can occur that would not have had the literature not been introduced.
September 1, 2005 @ 11:18 am
Lumpy Flamed? Hardly. I can’t say that I encourage my kids to listen to all points of view if I am going to flame someone for saying something I disagree with, especially given that you were so polite and respectful, I appreciate that.
Like I said before, I see your point. I also believe that on one hand sometimes the best example is a bad example. On the other hand, I have no problem with our children being shown positive examples. In fact, a healthy balance of the two would probably do wonders.
The fact is that morality and religion aside, promiscuity can be a death sentence. There is no exaggeration there.
Abstinence can be unrealistic, I’m a firm advocate of educating kids on all the options and consequences. That being said, our conversation isn’t based on promiscuity, is it?
I’m going to look like I am riding the fence here, so I apologize up front. I believe that either extreme is bad. You can’t go to one extreme pretending that nothing negative exists, that alcohol, sex, and drugs are not a reality in our world. You also cannot go to the other extreme where ALL we talk about are the extremes portrayed in some of the novels that you have mentioned.
In the novel in question, the book my son’s class is reading, there are natural consequences displayed in a reasonably realistic way, the book does not advocate drinking, in fact, it does show the ramifications of that lifestyle taken to an extreme, and of the consequences of violence in a way that reaches the reader on an emotional level.
A child who would be encouraged in this behavior through reading something like this, is a child who most likely already had problems. Much in the same way that it would be irresponsible to blame Ozzy Osbourne or AC/DC for someone committing suicide. But, that is off-topic, I admit.
As parents, we do have a responsibility to get involved in our children’s educations. But, as unrealistic or idealistic as it sounds, I believe that it is not the responsibility of the school to teach our children morals, religion, or values. I believe that schools should be open with all the facts in an unbiased way - and that parents should bear the responsibility of discussing those facts at home and instilling a strong moral compass.
That being said, do I agree with the school in England that is allowing the F— word to be used in class by the students? No. In as much that I would not use that word when going about my daily business at the bank, store, or library. All schools should maintain a code of conduct where students can learn without disruption. But, that is aside from our point as well.
As for a school in California teaching the Koran… all I can state is what I know for a fact, I know what my children are being taught, and it isn’t the Koran. Religious studies do not belong in a regular curriculum in grades K-12. That’s just my opinion. If someone wants their child to have religious studies on top of their regular curriculum then they need to send them to one of the private schools that are ran by a church.
Another sort of off-topic point here, is that there are many parents who would have no problem with Christian beliefs being taught in school regardless of the students attending who are of another faith, yet, mention the Koran, Buddhism, or Kabbalah, and these same parents will blow their stacks. It’s unreasonable, in much the same way that we cannot eliminate reading material simply because their may be concepts that offend someone’s beliefs.
The bottom line here is that this is a subject that can easily turn into Pandora’s Box and probably already has. ;o) We are skimming the surface of a lot of scenarios here. At the end of the day we as parents only have ourselves and our Creator to answer to. My conscience is fairly clean where my kids are concerned (after all, what mother is without guilt? LOL).
I don’t believe that you can raise a “thinking” individual by sterilizing their education or reading material. That being said, it is imperative to make sure that the reading material selected is appropriate for the age group it is being presented to.
In my original post, the book is appropriate for the age group.
A final note, I’m afraid that I just don’t agree with your suggestion that reading about certain subjects will encourage that type of behavior. I have an entire collection of Stephen King, it hasn’t made me want to go nuts or kill anybody, I have read Anne Rice’s “The Witching Hour” dozens of times and it hasn’t encouraged me to become a witch, study witchcraft, or have permiscuous sex as the main character, Rowan, did. Nor has reading about Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy encouraged me to become a Serial Killer.
(All extreme examples that I apologize for!)
Although, I have to admit that Sue Grafton’s Alphabet Mysteries did make becoming a private investigator look exciting!
Now, when we are talking about erotic material, that’s a different issue, however, it is written to garner that type of response. But, I don’t think that a junior high is going to be reading “Lady Chatterley’s Lover” any time soon. Nor do I completely agree with your stance that reading about eroticism will whet an appetite that will become out of control. In some people, absolutely. Are there people who are exposed to this sort of thing that become addicted to it? Sure! But just as not everyone who drinks will become an alcoholic, not everyone who reads about sex will be come a nymphomaniac.
The local high school district here had a book on their AR (accelerated reader) list that had a character who was sexually abused by her stepfather. Now, I don’t know to what extent it described it, but it is my impression that it was NOT in graphic detail. Parents were up in arms having an absolute fit over their high school age children reading this book. I don’t think that reading this book will encourage kids to molest their children, in fact, I think that sexual abuse has been swept under the carpet for far too long and hiding it from our kids is not going to make it go away.
I’ve gone a long way to come a very short distance with this response. My final thoughts are that either extreme is bad. We have to find a way to balance. That’s why it’s called a “Happy Medium”
September 1, 2005 @ 11:19 am
Lumpy By the way, I don’t think I took the opportunity to thank you for coming by. So, thank you for visiting and thank you for your thought provoking posts and the polite way in which you stated your opinions. Your responses, regardless of whether or not we agree, will always be welcome here.
September 1, 2005 @ 12:45 pm
I lied I’m going to post one more time but only to say thank you. I’m a young guy but love a good discussion. I try to stay polite as I’m interested in sharpening my intelect, views, and abilities to express those views. Not being polite about it makes it a fight and there isn’t much point to that. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I’ll be around ;)
The Lumpy
September 27, 2005 @ 5:07 am
I LOVE Autumn! (except for the crazy drivers)
When the boy-who-wears-a-cat was learning to drive, it started to sprinkle. As we approached a red light, I suggested he begin to brake. He touched them lightly - no response. I suggested more firmly, increasing in intensity to a crescendo of “BRAKE! BRAKE!”
We stopped literally one inch from the rear bumber of the car in front of us, after skdding and sliding sideways.
It is a lesson I don’t think he will ever forget - LOL!
Glad you are safe and sound - do you get much autumnal leaf color change where you are?
September 27, 2005 @ 11:54 am
You should see it around here if it snows! 1/2 inch and people are skidding all over the place!
September 27, 2005 @ 8:39 pm
marti I wish we got more. I’m in the San Joaquin Valley in California and while there are some maples around town that do change color, we don’t get nearly as much as I’d like. :o(
bonanza What is up with that?!?!? I lived in Colorado Springs for a while and when it snowed people just drove even faster!
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